World-Class Agency Insight with Ed Leake, Part 2

Continuing the conversation with Ed Leake, we explore the secrets behind his rise to success, stressing why financial focus can sometimes lead to dead ends. 

You will get to learn valuable insights about the future of digital marketing agencies as Ed offers his unfiltered predictions and shares the critical lessons he's learned mentoring countless agency owners. 

Tune in now!

Show Highlights:

• Navigating loss in business [00:39]
• Discover the perils of prioritizing money over passion [03:12]
• Learn this powerful rule of thumb for success [07:03]
• The long-term prospects of digital marketing agencies [07:58]
• Focusing on the fundamentals amid changing platforms [10:21]
• Do you know the potential impact of automation and AI? [12:45]
• The need for breaks and reflective moments [20:33]
• How to handle the frustration of financial stability [23:06]

For more updates and my weekly newsletter, hop over to https://betterquestions.co/.

To learn more about Ed Leake and his work, check out the below websites:

https://www.godtierads.com/

https://www.agencyforge.com/

https://edleake.com/ 

Transcript:

0:09  Hey guys, welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in. Man, I've had a full client load for five or six years in a row, and still in the back of my mind, I'm like, they could all go at the same time. It's very possible. You know what I mean? Like, even though it's not really possible at this point, you know what I mean, it just and I've had that experience of losing, I think I won one day, I lost half my clients in a single swoop, which was, I didn't have them any constant time. So that was, like the difference between paying the mortgage and not paying the mortgage. You know what I mean? And I remember that. And I think those, those memories, like you said, they kind of really stay with you where it's like the scarcity feeling. So I'm curious. So you said, like, if you could go back, you would do it differently. And so just for people, you know, we kind of mentioned this in passing, but I'm going to come going to kind of shoot ahead for people who don't know you, right? 

You haven't gone on to be, in my opinion, I think I said this to someone just last week, the single best educator in the Google ads space, like you have your agency, but you've gone on to be the coach and mentor to many, many, many people, kind of the person that you never had, and you do an excellent job of teaching, you do an excellent job of breaking things down into a format that people can digest and actually use. So I am curious in that context, being like Ed leak, Google Ads expert and sort of agency expert at this point, when you look back at young Ed, what are the things that most jump out at you as being like that was the wrong way to do like. Now that I'm here, I would do this differently, that differently. Like, we don't have to go down the line because, of course, like you said, our young selves, they don't know what we know, and they do all sorts of stupid stuff. But like, what were the big ones looking back where you're like, I know I would. I would have been very different if I'd just done these few.

2:04  Blimey, first of all, I'm welling up with the way you describe my training and coaching stuff. Yes, one of the reasons I put all that together is because I didn't have that and this, this is, this is how I operate. This is how I've learned. This how I do it. So here you guys have it. What would I tell myself at 17 or 18? Oh, this is impossible, because do you know what I'd say? Right work your absolute nuts off for a decade, save every single penny and then buy bitcoin when it gets released right now, in 2000 and I don't even know what year it was, but it could just, just buy them all, and then give it a decade, sell them all, and then buy the world. Then you've got other problems. No, realistically, what I what would I say? Oh, man, oh, I know it's the one fix. Forget about the bloody money. All my jobs were about the money. I need to earn money. Oh, I'm earning more money now, or the next one's going to pay me more money. Oh, I'm in this insufferable job because he's paying me lots of money. Fuck the money. Like, do it. You should have said to your parents, Ed when you're a kid, no, I want to do this website business. No, I want to build these computers. And if my mom had said, well, but it's making you no money, I'll be I'll make it make me money. 

And actually, so long as I can pay just enough board 300 pounds a month, I think it was, and my parents used to pay them a month. If I can pay you that month, then leave me to it. So I should have made it about what I wanted to do, not what I thought I should be, and pursue the money, because that's what you do. And everyone told me that's, you know, it's drilled into us, you know, you get educated, you get a job, you pay your bills, you pay your taxes, you die. So everything for the first decade was about money, which was a massive mistake, massive mistake, because now I've got enough that I don't need to worry about money. And that's another thing. That's another reason that I can keep that monkey off my shoulder, that devil off my back. I'm not materialistic at all. You know, I don't have any debt, I don't have a mortgage. I don't have anything. I'm not beholden to anyone. And that, I think, is like someone says, What's the meaning of life? Well, that's one of them. That's a chunk of it. Just not being beholden to anyone is is freedom. So don't prioritize the money when you're younger, because you can always earn money late. Prioritize what you want to do and work out if that is actually the right thing. So you get, you know, if you're if someone's listening to this and they're talking and they're 22 and they're in the job they hate, but it's paying their bills, well, reduce your bills. Go and find a job that you want to actually do, yeah, and then the money will come, and you might make the wrong move. You might go to a job that you also hate, but eventually,

4:36  I mean, you don't know that at the time, right? Can't know that until you do it, keep trying. Yeah, you just gotta keep it. So, yeah, man, I'm so glad that you said that, because I do think that that's it. It's so true. And even with like, agency, sorry, we're both in the agency space, it is such a common story to say, well, I. This client makes me miserable, that, you know, they make my life terrible, but they're my biggest client. They pay me really well. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's the the and it's so easy on top of that to say, well, you know, I can't let them go. I need the money. I need the money. And then you start to make more money, and your lifestyle expenses rise to meet the money that you made. Yeah, there's, like, almost never a point at which you're like, Well, I have enough money.

5:27  Oh god, yeah, just keeping pace, you know? Well, that's how I built the agency for the first seven years. Bigger office, more people, because I've got more clients. Well, it's because it's taking on the wrong clients and desperate for the money. And it's this horrible cycle. And again, a lot of people now go, oh, well, you don't understand that, because you've got no doubt. And this that the other Hold on a minute. I started with nothing and nearly getting kicked out of my bloody house. So I've gone full circle. So I know feast, I know famine, I know the difference. And it's, yeah, it is now easy for me to say you need to kick, kick into touch that destructive client regardless of what they're paying you, because that's the healthy thing to do, and it's very difficult because of the money, but oh my god, it was the best thing I ever did. Kept firing people that weren't appropriate, you know, not just staff, but clients that weren't just weren't healthy for you, and it might have been you on the stage. You might you know, if you take on the wrong client, it's a, it's a two way street, but just being a, yeah? Because the money will come if you do good work, you do the right things, it does come for most people, so, but focusing on money as the the p1 it's not the right KPI. It isn't, not for a business. My

6:36  favorite way of phrasing, this is Dan. Dan Kennedy. It looks sort of famous, yeah, direct response copywriter, right? He said, he says, like, I have a rule, and it's if I wake up three mornings in a row thinking about you and we're not having sex, you're fired. Yeah, that was my favorite. I was like, I'm like, you know, like, it's just very clear. I don't know if you want to live your life that way, but it's a good example of a powerful rule of thumb. You know, I mean, it's, it's probably more of a masculine description situation, yeah, but yeah, it is. It is a very fair, fair comment. You shouldn't be, yeah, something someone's consuming your thoughts. It's probably something that needs result, so it's a warning sign, yeah, if you can't, if it's you're thinking about it off the clock, that's it's a problem. I have a question for you, Ed, which is, you now are in this world where you talk to agency owners basically every single day, probably too many times a day, you know, you have your own agency that's running along in the background. You have run software for agencies. You've been involved in so many different levels of the industry. I'm very curious what you think about the long term health or prospects of specifically digital marketing agencies. And I'm going to just say we're going to focus on online advertising, because obviously, there's a million of you know, you can do tick tock and you do a million different things, but I'm curious, like, what you think about our long term health as an industry. I see some people who say, Look, we're going to get automated away the platforms. Don't want the middle man. It's just going to be kind of what happened to web development agencies, where they become commoditized. There's a race to the bottom for pricing, and they all move overseas. I've seen some people say, no, no, no, there's always going to be a place for the human you can trust, and they're going to look into your eyes and just want to give you $3,000 a month because they love you or whatever, right? So there's kind of like these different stories. I'm curious what you think like when you think 1015, 20 years from now, are you still seeing digital marketing agencies? Are they just there, but they look very different, right?

8:49  I'm gonna have give you a cop out answer because, because there's a really good reason for this. Okay, you're only on this planet once, and if you spend your time and energy worrying about a decade ahead or more that you probably have, unless you control a nuclear weapon, you probably have zero impact on the direction. That's true, then I would suggest that's a lot of wasted energy and potential, and you're not living today. You're not living in the now. You're not enjoying the fruits of your labor. Hopefully, if you've got some, you're you're in a permanent state of fear about the future. So that is a bit of a cop out answer. So I'm a five year guy. I look ahead because I invest quite a lot, so I'm thinking five years, five years. And this is probably the hardest time in my relatively short life that I've I'm struggling to see what happens in five years. Yeah, what does an agency look like in five years? I believe we'll still be around, unless the singularity, that journey or that ride on the hockey stick to singularity that we're supposedly on, I don't know if we've started or not yet. If that does arrive, then none of us will be correct what we're suggesting today. This is the problem. Everyone's trying to give an answer. Everyone's trying to, you know, scratch. Uh, the barrel to get an answer to sound smart and informed, or I'm I'm just obviously not that smart or informed because I have no idea where we'll be in five years. I think in the next few years, not a lot changes. Yeah, realistically, the platforms change, yes, yes, but the fundamentals don't Yes. There'll be more automation, but that will bring problems that you need to resolve. Yes, AI will get better. It needs to get better. AI is not good enough yet. It simply is not good enough. Not. If AI is better than you, you need to do better at your job. Yeah.

10:35  How am I feeling? Yeah, I'm with you there. It's okay. It's a shortcut to it fixes, it's sticky pastas. Ai, at the minute, it's a few tools that help you speed up the process. Brilliant. Take a few shortcuts. Fine. Does not replace you. So five years, who knows? Who knows? Because this, this kind of technology, it either takes 50 years or it takes five years, and it'll be a light switch moment, it'll be a sentient AI, I'm sorry, Dan, I cannot do that. So you know that day that it comes well oil, bets are off. So I don't want to worry about it too much. I'll think about the year ahead. I'll think about five years from a sort of my investment thesis and where I put my money. And you know what, you know? And health, also health, you know, I eat well and I exercise today because it will repay me in five years, not next week. Business now, okay, you probably have to shorten that duration. What you do today will probably repay you in 612, months or whatever. But, yeah, five years beyond, no idea for most people. Don't worry about it, try and be happy in today like this, and

11:40  you are, I suppose we should point out you are investing your own time and money in the form of your business, into agencies, right? Like you are working with agencies. I suppose if you thought five years from now, agencies probably wouldn't exist. You wouldn't have the forge, which is your community for agency owners, which is just they are paying me, yeah, they're paying you. But a lot of energy probably be shifting your focus to, like, I don't know, forge for dentists, or whatever it's going to be, yeah, yeah. So it's an, it's an interesting thing. I will say I think I'm more pessimistic than you, but

12:14  I'm Oh no, sorry, don't sorry. Danny got me wrong. I am incredibly pessimistic. The person who is there, I think, I actually, honestly think this, there are two. I think is a very binary outcome, actually, yeah, this is why I didn't want to talk about it. I do believe it's a, sadly, I think it's a binary outcome. It's either utopia or it is the opposite. Because if it's the opposite, there's too many others, for a start, which is an issue, I mean, as in humans, for the AI, because it become an efficiency race as well around energy, I think half the population would be melted down, quite frankly. But the utopia side is, yeah, it's the there's no, there isn't money. We don't need money. How? You know, how crass to talk about money? Everyone's equal, and everyone has the freedom to be themselves and to pursue the arts and make music and be all about culture and civilization. But to me, that's a I don't know that sounds let's put it this way, the big monopolies that control the world and the big families, they're not, that's not how they operate, and all this computing power and energy production and AI and sentient AI when it comes, if it comes, I don't think that's going to be a distributed model for them. I believe it's going to only amplify their strength and capacity and production. So, yeah, you've done it, Dan, you've ruined it. I wasn't going to

13:38  tell you, like, I don't, I don't want to, you know, I almost didn't want to point out that recently, you've moved to a very rural place, and now you have a cross but back here on this so, yeah, I don't know. Action speak louder than words. I assume I literally, I'm gonna, I've got a rather large solar array and battery array planned to be installed where I can be off grid and quite off grid for like weeks at a time. So I'm not reliant on any energy grid or anything we grow. We've got a big vegetable garden and so on. And I am learning to hunt and Bucha. So yes, I am going old school, but also healthy. But yes, I will be able to fend for myself in the middle of nowhere whilst the world burns around me. But this is the next thing, man, you pay a subscription fee every month to be able to come and live with Ed on his compound, right? And I look, I'm, I'm 100% in because I said, I said this earlier, we're on the state again, particularly Forge, which is your community, is just such a wonderful group of people and really, really high quality. Definitely, if you are in the agency space, really, even if you just do digital marketing of any kind, I kind of recommend it to everybody as a, really, the place to hang out and get, you know, be able to ask questions, because it's a lonely business a lot of the time. And, you know, you get used to. Your parents and your family saying, like, what? What do you do again?

15:03  Here's, you know, when you Google the top, I'm fed up with it. Now I've got a sorry to interrupt you. I don't know. Please. I'm going to a wedding on Friday, and I've got to, because I do five six different things. I literally now i, if people ask me, I just say, I'm an internet guru, tongue in cheek. But most people just go, Oh, okay. It just shuts them up because they don't know, okay, yeah. They're like, they don't really know where to go with that. Whereas, if I start saying, Oh, I do online advertising and this, that, and then you'll always have someone that, oh, yeah, well, um, actually, can I pick you your brain? My cousin's, my cousin's a plumber. Yeah, and yeah, okay, cool, man. The Well, I think, you know, I

15:48  was gonna call you an internet guru earlier, but I was like, You're not that person, though that's kind of what, what is funny about it like it's you're not the you're not out there presenting yourself as it is I at leak, the end all be, all of, all of my marketing knowledge. You're not out there, like showing your striped screenshot of a billion dollars or whatever. You are, really out there doing the work. I guess my question for you, and you know, we were talking a little bit off camera, and I want to be, I want to be, I want to watch your time. I know we're coming up on time so we can go as long as you need to. All right? So when we were talking off camera, you're kind of, you're kind of saying you're at this point in your business, which everybody gets to right where you are so successful, it starts to like SAP at you a little bit. You know what I mean. So I mean, what is next for you, man, are you like and you need to hire people to help you do what you do? Are you thinking about? Your next thing is that too far ahead for you? What's next for Ed leak, yeah,

16:46  so the it is going to sound a little bit crass now, but I am 41 and I could retire tomorrow and live off income from my investments and what have you, which is wonderful as very privileged position. It's not privileged outside of bollocks. It's, it's a fortunate position that I put myself in after nearly killing myself over the past 15 years. But yeah, so it does. So you do have moments where you're like, why am I doing this? Because if it's not for the money, why am I doing it? And now money's weird. It's like a game. It's like, well, I've got a tranche this big, or whatever, and a pop this big? Oh, can I double it? I saw it, but Okay, okay. Is that going to be live for the next 20 years? Just keep trying to make more money. That's a little bit tedious. So I am not a break. I mean, it's September now, when, when we're recording this, and I have, is it? No, it's not, sorry, it's end of August. I've nearly lost the money. That's end of August. It's almost there. We're almost there, sorry, part of the year. No, this the part of the year where it all blends into each other and it doesn't matter anymore. Time is, well,

17:47  I've not, I've not had a break yet. That's why. So this is another thing I've not had a break. So I have to think about that as well. It's like, well, why haven't you had a break? Why not looking after stuff? I do exercise everybody day. I live in the middle of nowhere, so everything's very healthy in that respect. But yeah, I do. I struggle with the what do I do? So if I just quit and started over, I'm really struggle with the what next scenario? And I think that's going to be a lifelong problem. I don't like the word retirement to me. I know I'm only 41 and I'm shouldn't be thinking about it, but I just think, well, what the hell? What do you do? Yeah, and I can't. I'm one of these people that can't just sit there. I can just about get away with sitting there reading a book. I can't do that every day or play a board game, but I'm gonna be friends. I play them on my own. I can't do that full time, and I do a bit of painting. Okay, I could do that, but I'm just now, I'm trying to find things to fill my time. So in terms of business, well, I wouldn't go into software because I've hated that experience building out of art, also because of automation and AI, I think that's probably not where you should be putting your money, particularly in our industry building tools right now is, well, that that is high risk. That's look at the draw. 

You could be the smartest person on the planet and get that wrong. So what? So what do we do? I mean, there is, I do have some sort of mid term goals, but it's more around having, like an estate to to do a hunt on. So not the master of the hunt, but I would be the the the landowner, and then we could run hunts and stuff. And if anyone's listening to this that doesn't like hunting or tough shit, I guess is the way to say what I was going to say. I mean, you are, you know, you're entitled to your opinion, but songs that the result of the hunt goes to use, I It's eaten and so on, then I'm all for hunting. Quite frankly, we would be hunted. Maybe one day we will get hunted when the aliens come. So they'll get their own, someone will get their own own back on me. But yeah, something like that, maybe. So something more, more leaning into the country, country vacation, the country fired thing. Country gentleman, yeah, with my tweed maybe. But the problem is, Dan, like my investment so finance side, I. It's all on a computer my so even my hobby was not a hobby that my the result of my businesses. I sit on a computer to manage my investments, and this, that and the other, and all my businesses require a computer to operate and be present, and so it's all glued to this bloody desk. So I, honestly, I haven't got the answer, and it's incredibly difficult, because I think about it all the bloody time. I just don't know. I don't know. I think the first thing I need to do is take a break. Because normally when I take a break, I have a reflective moment, and something happens because i do when i We go on holiday, we don't go to a beach or anything. We literally go to a cabin in the woods, not to murder people, but just to read a book. Off Grid, no phones, no internet, right? Log burner, you know, something like that. Literally lock yourself away for a week in your thoughts and see what comes out the other side. Yeah, and normally, it's an epiphany for me. So I don't know what the next epiphany is going to be, but you can bet your ass. It's probably something to do. Stood in front of a computer.

21:04  That's your tool trade, my friend, and, you know, ever since the quake, two days, you know, that's the, it's a nightmare, yeah, it's, I was, you're in this situation, yeah, yeah, a little bit, yeah. The, I don't know if it's going to be the same for you. I was very much like, I need to work with people. You know what I mean? Like, I need to, I need to be a mentor or coach, or have something where I'm working with people and where I'm learning. And the big thing for me was feeling like there just wasn't a whole lot new, and it's the same every time, and I've had the same conversation 1000 times, and I just wanted to do something completely different, right? But you can't really, you know, completely different would be me going and being like, you know, let me be the contract laborer, like you were, right? And that's, that's probably not that ship is probably sailed. So, yeah, man, it's an interesting time. In many ways. It's the most exciting time, right? I mean, and I think you're right, if you spend a week in a cabin, or two weeks in a cabin, or whatever it is, you're going to have that moment where your brain finally relaxes enough for that voice inside you to be like, here it is. You know, I mean,

22:12  it always happens. So if I there's another sort of parting piece of advice, if someone's listening to this and they're stuck in a decision, lock yourself away, no internet, no phone, no distractions. Just take a book. Or if you like drawing, just take a jotter and just, you know, if you like writing, just take a jotter. Or if you like D and D, go and play on you, on yourself with a journal. I've never played D and D, but yeah, and you will have an epiphany, and it might be something you're anticipating, might not. Often, for me, it's like it's just a catalyst to make that decision. That is one of 50 decisions in my head, and I can't see it. So yeah, yeah, it. But your your situation where you've got bored. Again, it's from a place of it's not complacency, but now it's become too easy. So the agency works, it makes money, and now you're it's formulaic for you. So it's become tedium, which, again, a lot of people are desperately chasing, yeah, but when you actually get there, because they're chasing the money, and you finally get there, you're like, oh, shit, is this it? I need something more now. And it is a frustration into itself, yeah, because you can keep growing it. But I that just means more the same, which is fulfilling for some people, not for others. It certainly wasn't for me. I got, I got to a point where I tapped out of a certain size. That's it. I'm happy at this point. I don't need this to be 100 people. It would be a nightmare, because I'm not a, ironically, I'm not a I'm not a social creature, I'm not a people person. And yet, I've got 1000s of people in my Facebook group. I've got 200 and something in my forge group who I talk to on a regular basis. And I'm not actually a people person. I don't I don't like to network. I don't like to go to events. You'd never find me talking on stage. I don't like to throw myself into a group of people and be the person that guy. If I'm forced to, I'll be, you know, polite and talk people. But I'm not really like, I don't know. I'm just, I'm quite introvert in that respect, which is weird, considering what I do. So I'm just a mishmash, I guess

24:05  I don't know well it. I think the lesson to take from that is like you can really do anything. You could do anything, yeah, and just be true to yourself as well. Yeah? Ed Lee, yeah, man, I want to be, I want to be responsible for your time. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you doing this and sharing so much of yourself. Being so open, it really means the world to me. I look up to you. I think you're incredible what you do, and just such an interesting person. So thank you so much for being on, man, I really appreciate it. Well, I don't you're gonna make me cry. Well, I think you're a splendid chap as well, Dan, and you've you've got a you've contributed to forge, and you've come out with some, I think, where they, where I come from, they call them bangers. Some excellent, excellent advice, and you seem far more succinct and able to put across a piece of wisdom in 30 seconds, whereas it takes me about 30 minutes to what. Pull through, and then finally come to some kind of summary. So yeah, I'm probably made for this kind of thing, aren't I, because I can just talk bollocks around this

25:07  is really, this is perfect, like the perfect podcast guest, and the high praise coming from Ed leak. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. I hope you got a ton out of it. I know I always do, anytime I come into contact with Ed, I get a ton out of it. Again, that's Ed leak, L, E, A, k, e, you can go Google him. You'll find him on YouTube, where he posts tons of super helpful videos. You can find his course god tier ads online. And if you are looking to join an agency community, I'll tell you what the Forge is probably my favorite. I have been a paying member there for quite a while, and I get a ton out of it. So go check out all of Ed's offerings. He is excellent, and I couldn't recommend him any more highly. As always, my blog is over@betterquestions.co where every week I'm writing about the best of what I'm reading and learning and thinking about. So go check that out, subscribe, so you get those emails in your inbox. I would truly, truly appreciate it, and I truly appreciate your time. It's been on this podcast. Thank you for listening. I will see you again next week. Cheers. You.